Chatter about Naval affairs

The RN no longer rules the waves, HMY Britannia is a tourist attraction

COMMANDER SALAMANDER posted this piece in substack which generated an interesting give and take.  I'm worried there's folks close to our Navy that resemble the individuals Jay Leno would interview in his 'Jay Walks" episodes.

https://cdrsalamander.substack.com/p/barfights-winchester-indians-and

SNIP

Barfights, Winchester, Indians & Bearing the Unsustainable

Yemen produces more history than can be consumed locally

CDR SALAMANDER

DEC 27, 2023

I hope everyone is recovering from the holiday season enough to gird your loins and livers for New Years and bowl season … but when you get a chance, make sure and keep your eyes open to the rapidly developing events in the Red Sea.

To start things off, we simply have to tip the hat to the exceptional work by Norfolk based, 28-yr old USS LABOON (DDG 58) and her little airwing friend;

That is 17 targets. We don’t know how many the pointy-nosed guy got or what missiles were used to take out the rest, but I assume SM-2/3/6 for the ASBM and LACM.

As I like to say; you can’t buy training like this.

As we’ve been playing fly-swatter off Yemen for the last few months and have been cycling through quite a few of our DDG, when I looked at the number engaged just on Boxing Day from one DDG, I started to wonder about two things:

I assume with the ASBM we’re doing SHOOT-SHOOT-LOOK-SHOOT just due to the math with those fast moving critters. Are we SHOOT-LOOK-SHOOT with the others? How much, if any, is our 5” gun or secondary systems getting to play? The pointy-nosed guy this time?

Who is keeping track about the number of Houthi drones/LACM/ASCM/ASBM we’ve shot down since October?

Reason why I’m pondering this is simple; I’m not all that sure this is sustainable.

Someone is going to run out of missiles (Winchester) eventually. We are not making efforts to take out their launchers and magazines ashore, so they are at liberty to pop off at will.

On our end? That had me wander over to March 2023 report by the Comptroller.

Take a look at the units we bought in 2024.

First, look at the units we’re buying to replace the SM-2, the multi-purpose (which is the best purpose) SM-6. I know SM-2 are still in production, but from what I’ve seen that is just for allied navies. If you see different, let me know in comments, but I believe the USN is only buying SM-6, not SM-2.

> Chart 

OK, that’s 125 a year.

How about the ballistic missile specialist SM-3?

> Chart

Just a few dozen. Huh. We’re not buying all that much considering what we’ve been sending downrange this year.

What am I missing budget pros?

Anyway, not to channel my inner Elbridge Colby here, but … I keep thinking of the varsity game in the Western Pacific. If you want to sober up - get the classified briefing on the Red Sea engagements and then look at any of your garden variety Taiwan scenarios.

The math it hard. Industrial capacity is harder. Logistics is a nightmare.

There’s your math problem, but I have a larger issue with our OPERATION ROPE-A-DOPE - what are we actually trying to accomplish?

If our mission is to intercept as many outbound weapons from Houthi controlled Yemen - sent to everyone from Israel, to shipping, to USN DDGs - with the hope to avoid anything that might escalate the Gaza conflict, then perhaps we’re doing OK in the short run.

If our mission is to deter the Houthis from attacking Israel or shipping, then I’m not sure we are doing all that well. To paraphrase something I said last night SEPCOR; if you are in a bar and some jerk starts taking swings at you and you dodge every punch he throws, side step every kick he makes without touching him - why should he feel deterred from continuing his attacks? If all his friends and big brother are cheering him on while he talks smack to you, insults your mom, sister, the scooter you drove in on - the whole shebang - why should he stop as long as he has the energy to continue? In reality, this will just lead him to grab an empty bottle, a bar stool, or a pool cue and try to bash your brain in with that instead.

Nothing we’re doing is deterring the Houthis. We have done absolutely nothing but encourage their behavior. As we are not taking out their launch sites or magazines, really we’re just in a competition to see if they run out of missiles before we run out of fresh VLS cells east of Rota.

The humorously named Operation Prosperity Guardian is, if anything, signaling a lack of resolve and division in the international community.

A final note that caught my eye is a player we’ve all been waiting to show up, India.

India has deployed destroyers equipped with guided missiles in the Arabian Sea "to maintain a deterrent presence" following an attack on a tanker off its west coast.

The vessel that came under attack on Saturday, the MV Chem Pluto, has reached the Indian city of Mumbai with a naval escort, the defense ministry said in a statement. The Liberian-flagged oil tanker had a crew of 21 Indians and one Vietnamese, who were all unhurt.

"Considering the recent spate of attacks in the Arabian Sea, Indian Navy has deployed Guided Missile Destroyers [namely] INS Mormugao, INS Kochi and INS Kolkata ... in various areas to maintain a deterrent.

For those not familiar with the Indian Navy, these are three of their six most modern 7,400 ton displacement destroyers.

I can’t quite find out where they will be deployed or how long they plan to be there … but this is not insignificant.

We are only in the opening chapters of this story, but I’m not sure it will get worse.

Even if we don’t change our response to these attacks, through persistence we can endure through what one would suspect is a limited Houthi inventory of useful weapons, especially if we can stop resupply from Iran. With a large dose of luck, we may get through with only an impact on economics and our own magazine depth.

There are two downsides even with this optimistic possible outcome.

\We’ve burned through an already thin inventory.

We’ve established a precedence that anyone can take pot-shots at American warships without response.

The second worries me the most.

SNIP

Thoughtful article.  The cost/benefit of SM2 and 3s against thousand dollar foam 'drones' may have come later to Salamander than some (like, a month later (1)), but he finally got there.  The article produced numerous responses, some better than others.  Mine attached below ...

The Gaffer

17 hrs ago

Anyone want to explain then why we're spending billions defending a border for a country that has betrayed us countless times since 1947 - and not secure our own?

Anyone?

Unless ... unless defending "our special friend" isn't the real purpose of having US warships there.

Could it be to "defend the freedom of the seas". As to that, why? Of the 56,000 or so merchant ships in the world (1) only 180 or so are US flagged (2).

Sooo ...we are NOT an empire - we're broke. Is someone paying the US to maintain the Navy required for the task?

No. No one is paying us to do that.

So, why?

The farce that US is not engaged in hostile actions directly against Russia doesn't humor Russians. NORDSTREAM pipeline's equivalent is the Alaskan pipeline. Putin has been well motivated to provide some cargo containerized SS-N-27s via Iran to peculiarly adept 'Houthis' given peculiarly adept 'Ukrainians' were able to target and engage his cruiser in the Black Sea. The Mullahs will necessiarly be implicated as the middle men.

The result? US losing a lot of sailors and finally declaring the war on Iran that Deep State and Israel has wanted since the '80s.

And that, IMHO, is probably why the US warships are hanging around in the Red Sea.

Not as defenders.

As bait.

1. https://www.statista.com/statistics/264025/number-of-merchant-ships-worldwide-by-merchant-flag/

2. https://www.bts.gov/content/number-and-size-us-flag-merchant-fleet-and-its-share-world-fleet

which produced in turn subsequent give and take ...

sid

16 hrs ago

·edited 16 hrs ago

This is about maintaining security and access to one of the most strategic waterways on the planet.

The current dustup up is a piggyback issue.

How do you think the shoes you are wearing, the computer you are looking at, the drugs you are prescribed...I could go on...

How do you think all that stuff gets to you?

Jetcal1

16 hrs ago

"How do you think all that stuff gets to you?"

- Why magic of course.

The Gaffer

15 hrs ago

"This is about maintaining security and access to one of the most strategic waterways on the planet."

Yes, of course. Call out Team America: World Police. Oh wait, that's a cartoon, not a documentary.

David Pawley

14 hrs ago

Uh....

The USN has long been dedicated to maintaining freedom of navigation in international waters, worldwide. As have RN, RAN, the French navy and other western countries.

The British and French invaded Suez to ensure access.

I don’t understand how you could argue against either the importance of Suez Canal transit or that the maritime powers have the right to enforce freedom of navigation.

Thus I must conclude that you are a fuckwit.

The Gaffer

1 hr ago

"...maritime powers have the right..." Curious statement. Is that Biblical or in our constitution? Does a larger army convey the right to land conquest?

The US is not an unmatched superpower anymore. We are broke. Deep State and Ace Lyons tried hard to get the war with Iran going back when we were the world's superpower. I know, I was there. Today our border is overrun and there's thousands of military age Chinese and fundamentalist moslems who have trotted across not with what's best for our republic in mind.

Britannia ruled the waves - but the Queen had press gangs. We have an "all voulenteer" force and parents that don't want to see their daughters die so Nike can ship at cut rates.

I'll leave my assessment on your mental state unpublished.

Billy

12 hrs ago

·edited 12 hrs ago

Freedom of navigation is one of the pillars of the rules based order. Globalism starts breaking down when cheap goods can't get to the market.

The Gaffer

56 mins ago

What do you know about "Globalism"? Globalism is not the friend of an informed, free middle class in America. Globalism is our enemy. America is becoming less remarkable, less free, less wealthy - intellectually and financially - as it surrenders freedoms and national sovereignty to midbrow 'globalists' - the drones of the megelomaniacs in Davos.

1. https://nexttobagend.blogspot.com/2023/11/your-curated-news-for-day.html